Author Topic: New .410 Loader, Arrgh what an experience (Read 4976 times)

Graybeard · « **on:** September 20, 2006, 01:17:37 PM »

I've not loaded any .410 shells in a great many years. I had long ago sold my old MEC 600 JR converted to a 700 Versa-MEC. In fact until just recently I'd not even done any shooting with the .410. So I decided if I were going to shoot it I best start reloading for it as the price of shells around here is getting close to $8 a box.

I ordered a new MEC 600 JR from Midsouth Shooter's Supply a GBO Sponsor and a company I've been doing business with for at least 20 years. It came yesterday so I decided to try it out.

Arrgh what a HORRENDOUS experience that was.

It set up fine and with no problems at all. BUT almost all the Federal hulls I have stuck in the sizer station. MEC obviously is aware of the problem as these days they even include a little tool to slide on the reloader to aid in getting stuck shells unstuck. WHY THE HECK DON"T THEY JUST FIX THE PROBLEM?

If that was the ONLY problem I'd not be posting tho. Most every thing I tried to load except the new Winchester AA HS hulls seem to stick on the primer seater tube. No not all of them but at least 50% are nearly impossible to remove from it without the little tool and at least 75% have to be pulled off with two hands or the tool. Geez what a poor excuse for a reloader this has turned out to be. It sure isn't as good as MECs of old proved to be.

So any of you loading .410s these days what are you using? Are you having any particular problems loading them you want to mention? I need a DIFFERENT Loader as I'm dang sure not gonna continue the hassle with this one. I'll be calling MEC soon about it.

But in the mean time I need some suggestions on what to replace it with. Anyone used the Hornady 366?

JoeG52 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 20, 2006, 01:51:40 PM »

Graybeard,
The problem isn’t with the loader, it’s with the shells. Throw those Federals away and stick to AA. The problem with sticking on the primer station is that the primers are too big. I know they are all called 209, but some are a lot tighter than others. It has been a long time since I bothered to try to load any 410 except AA that I can’t remember for sure but I think the Remington primers fit the tighter pockets better. I see people new to loading the 410 picking up Federal, Estate, Rio etc and the following week they start asking for pointers on loading them. I tell them to toss them out, that is why they were on the ground in the first place.
Joe

rickyp · « **Reply #2 on:** September 20, 2006, 02:39:16 PM »

I mostly load Remington and AA hulls, I even use a few Federals when I find them. I do get hulls stuck from time to time but not that much

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** September 20, 2006, 05:40:35 PM »

Using what loader Ricky?

I was loading old AAs, old Remington and Peters blue hulls and the fairly new Federals. The ONLY ones that didn't stick were the new Win AA HS hulls, in fact the WORST offenders were the old AAs.

I think there are two problems with the primer seater stem on this press I got. One is the outside of it is very rough and needs to be polished which I will do. The other is I think it might need to be smoothed up and maybe rounded a wee bit on the bottom. I'll take the stem off and take care of this before I load anymore.

You can really save some serious bucks on .410s by reloading them IF it goes fast enough to make it worthwhile. I figure I can easily save $5 per box by reloading them but I'm not gonna do it on this press unless I can get past the problems it gave me on first try. My old MEC 600 JR sure had no such problems, I was loading hulls from this same generation just as fast as I could move back in the day.

dave375hh · « **Reply #4 on:** September 21, 2006, 04:58:24 AM »

Graybeard,

I use a MEC 650 for my .410s. This is an idea of what I've done to it to make it run.
1. Remove the decaping rod and reduce the dia. of the primer punch and taper the shaft above it.
2. Round the edges of the primer seating ram they get stuck when they bury in the basewad.
3. Remove and polish the inside of the powder/shot drop tube. A 1/4" piece of drill rod with a slot in one end and some emory cloth in a drill. Polish the whole thing. Now coat the tube with Rapine mold prep, it's a micro fine graphite in an alcholol vehicle. Plug one end and pour a little in put ypur finger over the other end and shake. Pour the excess back in the bottle.This will dry in a min. or two. Do the plastic tube on top also.
4. Put some Motor mica(AKA Midway Mica or white graphite) in with the shot Say 1/2 tsp. Add another 1/2 tsp to every 5th time you fill the shot bottle, agitate it to coat the shot. This and the mold prep will stop any shot bridging.
5. If you have the auto primerfeed with the chain, go to a home Improvement store and get a replacement pull chain for a fan or light. It's bigger in dia and dosen't stretch like the one they put on it. Hope this helps

rickyp · « **Reply #5 on:** September 21, 2006, 06:57:39 AM »

I am using a MEC 600 JR that I bought about 3 years ago.
where are your the hulls geting stuck? When I do get a stuck hull it is usually at the base from one that I picked up from the range.

Right now I am loading for 3- 410's one is a very old H&R Topper 410, one is a 10 inch contender and the last one is a 12 inch encore. I very rairly shoot the topper when I load it is normaly a special load like buck shot or a load of 9 shot.

around me 410 shells are something like $12 a box and just try and find a box of buckshot

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** September 21, 2006, 07:52:20 AM »

This morning I took the primer seater stem off and chucked it up in my drill press to work on it. I first used 320 grit, then 400 grit and finally crocus cloth to polish it smooth. It's much better now but I think I need to do as Dave says and further reduce the diameter of it and maybe taper it as well. I worked the bottom of it a bit but need to do a bit more there also.

I think I have the sizer station fixed by making an adjustment, the factory adjustment was way off and I'm thinking it's not gonna give me that much more trouble now. After doing these things I loaded about 200 rounds using mostly RP hulls both the green Remington and the blue Peters hulls. None of them stuck in the sizer and very few gave any tightness coming off the primer seating stem.

The Federal hulls now load slicker than any other except the new Winchester AA HS which is still the best loading so far. The older Winchester AA and field hulls are still a royal pain, I put them back in the box for now. Until I do more work on the press it's just not worth the effort to load them even tho they load and crimp beautifully ONCE you get them primed and off the primer stem.

Things are much improved after the effort I put in this morning and I now see a bit more I can do to make more improvement. I think I can get it where I can live with it but it's sure a long way short of my old 600 JR.

I've had no further problem with shot briding so far. I've run #10 shot through and then a mixture of both #9 and #10 and am now using straight magnum #9s to load up the AA HS hulls I have. Now they loaded perfectly on it, no problems at any station. I'm thinking the new Remington STS hulls would do the same but I don't have any of those right now.

I figure the box I found must have at least 2000-3000 hulls in it based on the number loaded so far and how small a percentage they are of what's there total. I'm gonna load them up at least once before I think of buying additional hulls.

MOGLEY · « **Reply #7 on:** December 05, 2006, 11:30:18 AM »

I have a mec 650 in 410. I have found it to be real good sometimes and then,,,,. I had a bunch of old remington hulls and even bought some other remington hulls.(5 yrs ago ??) I had a real time with the primer seating too. I was told I needed to get 410p primers made for those hulls. Winchester hulls were fine. I just asked about newer hulls on another forum. I was hoping all the hulls load o.k now with the standard 209 primers. Remington hulls are cheaper and more abundant on e-bay. Am I gathering correctly? are all newer hulls 209 friendly?
One other thing I found an issue with was the wad seating tube would hug the wad to snug and then by vaccum action suck the wad almost out allowing the shot to dispense evenly all over my press! I threw some flour in the wad hopper and it stopped theat particular problem and was cheap as well. When I loaded last I bought some cheditte hulss but they all needed to be thinned at the mouth in order to crimp. It all is a bit frustrating but I really like shooting the 410 and have taught my daughter, son, neice and wife how to shoot skeet with the 410.

Bob_K · « **Reply #8 on:** December 07, 2006, 02:17:37 PM »

Man, I must be lucky with my .410 reloading. I use a MEC 9000H, and only STS or WW old style hulls. I had too many whistlers with Federal. My powder is Alliant 410, a vey dense powder that still leaves some freebore above the shot so it does not spill out as the machine advances. I will only occassionally have a hull stick on the decapping stem, and it will invariably be an STS. It happens maybe once in 200 hulls, so is not a real problem. My 28 ga loader, on the other hand.....

Myron_Holley · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2007, 02:39:56 AM »

$:-\$ Its the shell cases. The only one and best is Mott From France. Then AA'S the rest is junk. If you like to fight it. go with the rest. Mec, Dillon, P.W. can not make up for the lack of size comformity by federal, aka. Balistic products sells a good 410 to be reloaded. But only go with the bpi 410 cases Mike in Ohio.

shaner · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2007, 05:21:03 AM »

been loadin 410 for years n years,,,, its the fed hulls i hate them plus are yu usein the ones thet have the cardboard cap when they are new? they really suck, use AA hulls , and rem sts, they are yur only hope , , nough said i wont go into all the years of blunders, i had two boys shootin 410 at one time, for a couple of years they one went thru 1000 rounds one summer by hinself

messer454 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 05, 2007, 09:11:40 AM »

Graybeard-I read this awhile ago and was very hesitant but bought a MEC .410 loader anyway. I have only loaded two boxes so time will tell but after one Win and one Rem STS box everything worked fine.

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2007, 01:39:13 PM »

Mine too works very well with the new Winchester AA HS hulls but so far I've not started to load any of my STS hulls. I'm building up a supply of them as well. I sure do hate to not use the 2000-3000 older hulls that I have that are once fired tho. But they are just so much trouble I've not gotten back to them.

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 07, 2007, 08:33:41 AM »

One has to wonder WHY mec has to make the primer seating stem to be such a snug fit! As far as I can tell it would hurt nothing to have it a bit undersized. Even if the shells entered .005 off center the primers should seat fine. I also wonder if a shell holder in the sizing station wouldn't help. I realize this would make them harder to size right down to the base but mine never seem to size down there anyway and sure shouldn't cause problems in guns except maybe semi autos.

I will admit my experience loading 410 is limited. I do it on a borrowed, older 600 loader and do about 1000 then return the loader. So far STS and older WW's in that order have been the best. I have NEVER had any success in any gauge with federals. I tried a few of the new HS but didn't really have enough to get the loader adjusted.

Graybeard · « **Reply #14 on:** May 07, 2007, 10:34:56 AM »

I sure wish I'd kept my old MEC .410 loader. As best as I recall it was a 600 JR converted to a 700 Versmec. That rascal made short and easy work of all those old hulls from those days and since I still have thousands of them it sure would be nice to be able to load them.

12Bravo · « **Reply #15 on:** August 13, 2007, 09:36:34 PM »

I bought a MEC 600 about 10 years ago to reload .410. I mostly reload 3" hunting loads (7 1/2 shot). Winchester super x and Remington (green hulls) reload just fine for me. I haven't messed with any Winchester AA hulls yet, but haven't had any problems reloading Remington 2 1/2" field hulls. I cheated and made a 1/2" adapter plate so that I didn't have to keep changing the press from 2 1/2 to 3. With the 2 1/2" Remington hulls , I didn't have to make any adjustments. The only problem that I have had is with shot bridging.

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** August 14, 2007, 05:55:41 AM »

Shot bridging is a real problem with the .410 with any shot size larger than #9 but then that's all I load in it. I've found that if I lift the drop tube almost but not quite out of the case it minimizes the problem and also I can hear whether it dropped or bridged and can deal with it before shot spills all over the place. Still I'll get at least one spill per every 200-300 rounds in spite of how careful I call myself being. I'd not want to be loading #7-1/2 or I'd be getting spills constantly. My use of the .410 is strictly limited to skeet and #9 shot.

An update on this MEC 600 JR:

I've now loaded several thousand rounds on it and it has smoothed up considerably and is doing fine now. I ended up selling the older Winchester AA and Remington/Peters cases to other folks at the range who prefer them. The Federal hulls are now loaded but man what a pain in the butt to size as they seem to stick in the sizer due to that high metal base almost every time. Still they do load nicely once out of the sizer.

Both the newer Winchester AA HS and the newer Remington STS Premier hulls are loading smoothly with no problems now. I'll likely not bother with the Federals again once I fire them as they are just more trouble than they are worth. I only have 295 of them and it's just more trouble than they are worth to me.

I've probably loaded close to 4000 hulls on this press now and perhaps a few more even and about 2000 of them in the last 30 days.

sirgknight · « **Reply #17 on:** December 23, 2007, 09:06:58 AM »

Graybeard, my wife finally broke down and got me what I wanted for Christmas....a .410 shotgun, and a Mec 600 Jr. reloader in .410. They are under the tree for opening at CHRISTmas and I am very excited about getting started in this new endeavor. I'm hoping that reading about all of your problems will help me in not duplicating the same problems. AAHS shells are $11 a box here, but it may be well worth it in the long run to buy a few boxes and just use them for my reloading. I live in an extremely remote area in south georgia and I do not have close access to sporting clay clubs, firing ranges or anything like that. In fact I have to drive 140 miles roundtrip to buy reloading components. Our local walmart superstore is a joke in the sporting goods section, especially since they no longer sell firearms. Thanks for all of the information you have provided in this forum.

Graybeard · « **Reply #18 on:** December 23, 2007, 10:26:42 AM »

Stick with the new Winchester AA HS hulls or the newer Remington STS hulls and it should be fine. I sold off all of my older Remington and Winchester AA hulls in frustration. I tried loading the older Federals and gave up on them as useless. No one would buy them so I just trashed them.

Once you get it all opened up if you'd like PM me and I can tell you what recipe I'm using that seems to be working well for me with the set up. It's working pretty smoothly now but it was a real pain getting it up and running compared to all my old MEC presses.

sirgknight · « **Reply #19 on:** December 28, 2007, 11:21:46 AM »

Ok, I'll PM you in a few days. I got the reloader set up and it seems to be doing just great with the AAHS and STS hulls, but the others are terrible, especially the Estate hulls that I have. Those things are a joke. I haven't done any reloads yet, just trying to get the feel of the reloader. It came with the size 10, 11 and 12 bushings. I'll be reloading with H110 powder and Claybuster wads. I'm looking for some 3 inch hulls so I can reload some lead BB shot. That is a special project of mine down the road.

12Bravo · « **Reply #20 on:** December 29, 2007, 12:42:28 PM »

Quote from: sirgknight on December 28, 2007, 11:21:46 AM

I'll be reloading with H110 powder and Claybuster wads. I'm looking for some 3 inch hulls so I can reload some lead BB shot. That is a special project of mine down the road.

I use to use Winchester 296 but recently switched to H110. Claybuster wads are the only type I have used. I get a little better pattern and a little more range with the H110 compared to W296. I mostly reload #7 1/2 shot but did reload about 100 shells with #4 shot. I also reloaded some 3" shells with 5 pellets of #00 buckshot. All five pellets stay center mass at a silhouette target at about 15 yards.

Graybeard · « **Reply #21 on:** December 29, 2007, 06:56:14 PM »

H110 is W296 or to say it the other way around W296 is H110. Same O same O just packaged and sold under both names. It's all made by Primex and is the exact same powder just different lots of it. Any difference you see is either imaginary or normal lot to lot variation.

I now use only Lil' Gun in .410.

12Bravo · « **Reply #22 on:** January 01, 2008, 07:53:01 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on December 29, 2007, 06:56:14 PM

H110 is W296 or to say it the other way around W296 is H110. Same O same O just packaged and sold under both names. It's all made by Primex and is the exact same powder just different lots of it. Any difference you see is either imaginary or normal lot to lot variation.

I now use only Lil' Gun in .410.

Yes it has been quite a while since I have bought any W296 so yes the lots probably is what is making the difference. Are you using Lil Gun for just 2 1/2" shells or are you also using it for 3" shells?

Graybeard · « **Reply #23 on:** January 01, 2008, 07:56:27 AM »

I load ONLY 2.5" shells in the .410. To the best of my knowledge I've never fired a 3" shell in any .410 I've ever owned. My primary use of the little .410 is skeet shooting but even for what little live bird shooting I do with it I find the 2.5" adequate to my needs.

Questor · « **Reply #24 on:** January 02, 2008, 02:57:15 AM »

What makes the 410 particularly difficult to load for? I've read nothing but bad about handloading 410. Particularly with progressives. Is it that the case is more like a cartrige than a shotshell?

Graybeard · « **Reply #25 on:** January 02, 2008, 03:34:15 AM »

I guess one could say there are two things that make it a bit difficult to load for. The primary one is shot bridging and it can be a real pain when it happens. Use any shot size larger than #9 and it happens often. Stay with #9 and it isn't that much of a problem.

The other is the small size of the hull itself it seems kinda tiny in the hands and more ackward to load due to the small size. In that regard the 28 and 20 rule as the seem ideal in size for loading and 12 a bit large. The small size also makes the insertion of the wad tricky at times. If the wad guiding fingers fail to get down into the hull to guide that wad in it will crush and often ruin the hull. Keeping those fingers in good shape is a key to avoiding this.

Otherwise there isn't all that much difference in it and the rest. The discussion here centered on the new MEC 600 JR loader and it's peculiarities when it was new. My old one had no problems with the older Winchester AA or Remington hulls but this one sure did. Both tended to stick on the primer seating ram. In the .410 that ram is a rather tight fit in the case where as in the other gauges there is more play between it and the inside of the case. That caused it to stick tight and be very difficult to remove from many of those older cases. It does not seem to do that on either brand of new cases.

Additionally the way the 600 JR sizes and then releases the hulls creates a sticking situation if the brass is higher than the lowest of hulls. In this regard Federal is a culprit as they use the tallest brass base of any brand. I solved that by not loading Federal hulls just as I solved the other problem by selling my older RP and AA hulls to someone who's press didn't have the finickiness of mine.

In a way a progressive fixes these problems. It holds the case firmly at each station so it is in effect pulled from the primer ram and most use some different method of sizing as well. I should have bought a Sizemaster 77 like my other presses but in .410 it doesn't have a primer feed so decided not to spend the extra money on it over the 600 JR. If I had it to do over I'd have gotten the 77 not the 600 JR. But even so the sticking of cases on the primer ram wouldn't have been any different only a progressive would alter that.

Many use progressives I guess I'm just not coordinated enough to master them. I'll stay with my slower single stage loaders. They've served me well for 40 years or so and should continue to do so for whatever years I have left in me.

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 03, 2008, 02:56:40 AM »

I'm using a Sizemaster to load 28ga. When i started out I bought a couple flats of Win AA target loads. I shot them up and had a good supply of empties. These were pre HS hullls and they loaded flawlessly. One of my shooting partners gave me 50 Remington Premier hulls in 28. That's when the nightmare began. The Remington hulls would get stuck on the primer seating tube. What a pain in the butt. I did all the things I thought would work. Adjusted it ,polished it,tapered it you name it I tried it. When I was done it was better, but still had a Remington hull hang on now and then. I'm just glad I have a bunch of AA's on hand. Funny that 28g. hulls are hard to come by and the hulls most frequently given away here are Remington. I will not turn my nose up at them but, AA do make for easier loading.

Graybeard although he may not cherish them may have the answer to some of these little problems. Progressive presses. I own 3 Mec Grabbers 12ga,20ga,410. It don't matter what hull I put in them they all work without a hitch. My partner that gave me the hulls loads loads primarily Remington hulls as he acquired about a 1,000 once fired. He loads on A Mec 9000G and never had a problem.