Author Topic: Shooting a pump quickly and on target ?  (Read 1262 times)

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Offline Country Boy

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Shooting a pump quickly and on target ?
« on: September 21, 2006, 11:48:23 AM »
 I have shot pump shotguns all my l9ife and can rattle them off on target when necessary.   But, for the life of me I can not do the same with a pump rifle.  Whats the secret to using a pump rifle quickly and staying on target. Please don"t say more pratice. I shoot every day and not just at thde range. Yesterday evening I went squirrel hunting and trying to hit a squirrel running through the tree tops with a .22 is quite
   a challenge. ;D

Offline Mike103

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Re: Shooting a pump quickly and on target ?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2006, 12:00:59 PM »
When you shoot with a shotgun you have both eyes open, you are looking at the target and swinging the gun at the same time. One easy motion. As long as you have good cheek weld, keep the gun moving and your head down you will most likely hit the target. Your brain will figure out the lead.

But with a rifle you are trying to track the target while looking thru both the front and rear sight simultantously. Hard to do.   

My brother shoots a scopped rifle with both eyes open. He does not get tunnel vision looking thru the scope like I do but looks thru the scope while still maintaining field of view on both sides of the scope. I saw him drop a buck at a dead run with his model 7. I have tried this but have had mixed results.

MIKE

Offline lil_hunter12

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Re: Shooting a pump quickly and on target ?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2006, 01:20:46 PM »
with a rifle if ur tryin to b fast.no scope it just hurts u and a squirrel is hard to hit right with a rifle anyway

Offline NYHunter

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Re: Shooting a pump quickly and on target ?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2006, 08:38:34 PM »
Still can't figue out how anyone can shoot, and hit,  with both eyes open.  ???

Offline DeerMeadowFarm

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Re: Shooting a pump quickly and on target ?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2006, 02:59:05 AM »
Still can't figue out how anyone can shoot, and hit,  with both eyes open.  ???

Have you ever played any baseball? If you were at shortstop and a ground ball was hit to you, would you close one eye when you threw it to the first baseman?

Shooting and hitting something with both eyes open is not the easiest thing to do without practice (sorry I mentioned it countryboy), but it helps if you have the right equipment. IMO, the right equipment = a peep sight or a low mag scope. If you are trying to shoot with regular open sights you are going to have a hard time shooting with both eyes open. With a peep you look through it and place your front bead on the target (I unscrew the aperature out of my peep sights for hunting conditions); your eye will automatically center the bead in the peep (it is looking for the clearest view of the front sight); this is as similar to shooting a shotgun as you can get.

A low power scope is in many ways better once you get used to it. First of all you need quality glass and a good amount of eye relief, My 7600 has a Leupold Vari-X III 1.5 to 5x; it stays on 1.5 99.9% of the time. I can shoot this well with both eyes open but I also sent the scope back when I first bought it and had the factory install a "shotgun Duplex reticle" which had much heavier (thicker) lines than the standard reticle. I actually received a call from the factory when they received my request asking why I wanted that style reticle in a rifle scope. I explained that my hunting is mainly in northern New England where shots are usually under 100 yards and at moving targets; a heavy reticle helps me to put the crosshairs on a moving deer while keeping both eyes open. The next year Leupold offered this same scope set-up touting it as a "dangerous game" scope; they advertised it as a scope you'd want to put on your African Buffalo gun for when the beast was charging you and you had to have quick sight aquisition... Sounds a lot mor glorious than my idea to pick up running deer easier, but you think they would have sent me at least a free hat for the idea... ;)

Running squirrels are tough enough to hit with a scattergun never mind a rifle... You may not be missing by much at all, but all things relative your target is pretty tiny...

You mention rattling off shots pretty quick; you can get away with that with a shotgun, but with a rifle you still need to aim and this takes time and practice.

I have a .22 pump Remington set up with a low power (1 to 4x) shotgun scope. It's not a Leupold but it is a pretty good quality scope with good eye relief. We went out to the range during the winter when there was snow on the ground. I brought my clay flyer thrower and I set the trajectory so the birds wouldn't fly more than 5' off the ground, much lower than the backstops we have. You'd be surprised how many we were able to hit with the .22 after a while, some on the second or third shot even. With the white snow background you could often see where your misses went as well and we found we weren't missing by much! It was very addicting practice; my nephew thought I was nuts when I suggested it but as we went along even I was shocked how well we started hitting.

So, although you didn't want to hear it, practice is the key, but it has to be the correct practice; one that simulates what you are trying to accomplish in the field. If you shoot off the bench daily, one shot at a time, and then go to the field and shoot 3 shots at a moving target off-hand and don't hit consistantly....well, this shouldn't be a surprise I guess.
"Aim small, miss small"

Offline LEO

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Re: Shooting a pump quickly and on target ?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2006, 03:05:24 AM »
NYhunter, it is all about training and what you get used to.  After you get used to it I think you will find that your shooting actually improves, particularlly under field condiitions.  The human eye is set up to work as a pair as far as field of veiw, depth perception etc so when you close one eye you limit this.  I know some people have lost the use of one eye but that is different.  The key to shooting with both eyes open is practice, and if using a scope, eye relief must be correctly set.  Almost all of your competition shooters shoot with both eyes open and obviously they hit well.  Keeping both eyes open is really helpful when shooting at moving or multiple targets.  It also reduces (but does not eliminate) eye dominance issues.  Some types of shooting are almost impossible with one eye closed, shooting on the move is one of them (I realize that is not much of an issue when hunting game but can be critical in other firearms applications).  Hope this helps

Offline Country Boy

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Re: Shooting a pump quickly and on target ?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2006, 08:24:22 AM »
 I guess I should have said it's hard to get back on target due to recoil( 30-06 pump) after the first shot. When my eyes were young I had my best luck with peep sights then went to a K 3 weaver.
  I'm sure you guys are right about the both eyes open thing. There was a writer for the St. Louis Post that developed such a system for and adoped by the army. I went to his seminar once and he used a BB gun to shoot asprins in the air by the end of the seminar I could do it to ! But I could not transfer this skill to a pump rifle, I can do it with other rifles on game(not asprins) I just mentioned squirrels as it is a great way to pratice and put meat in the pot.Once I sight in a rifle I get off the bench ! I have at various times shot 3 or more running deer in the brush and in the open and don't even remember looking at the sights  (semi-auto and lever guns)
  I ask this question as my step-son gave me his Rem.06 pump,says it kicks too much, and he can't hit anything as the foreend is too loose. I used a Remington 141 in .35 Rem in the 50"s and had no trouble at short range. But, I sure can't master this 7400.
   Thank all of you for your imput, I appreciate it.

Offline Mike103

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Re: Shooting a pump quickly and on target ?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2006, 05:05:04 AM »
I have been thinking of getting one of the Remington 7615 police pumps in .223 just for this purpose, cheap pratice. They come with both gost and standard iron sights. Can't decide on which sights. MIKE.

Offline LEO

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Re: Shooting a pump quickly and on target ?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2006, 10:13:10 AM »
I have one in 308 with the wilson sights.  The sights are great, they are faster than any iron sight I have ever used.  They are not as percise as the standard sights or an apeture sight with a small apeture but that is not their purpose.  When I say not as percise, I don't mean you will not be able to hit game, I mean you may be in the 10 ring instead of the X ring if that makes sense.  I could not be happier with my rifle, I have had it for about 3 years or so and the more I use it the better I like it.  I have looked at the 223s but they really don't interest me as I have an AR carbine but for the practice you describe I think you would be very happy with it.

Offline Mike103

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Re: Shooting a pump quickly and on target ?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2006, 01:51:59 PM »
I have a AR and a Mini but I want a pump rifle to pratice with on the cheap and I thought the 7615 might fit the bill. MIKE.