3006 vs 375 JDJ for an Alaska trip

[patrick.hover]

Ok, I know this will have alot of differing opinions but I like to mull stuff over with you guys anyway and it always fun to hear the opinions.  But on a serious note, I am going to Alaska next year for a Mountain Griz hunt and of course will be carrying my trusty Encore pistol....what I am debating is the use of handloaded 3006 220 grain swift A Frames or Nosler Partitions  OR   buying a new 375 JDJ barrel and using the Factory Loaded ammo from Thompson.

What do you think?

Recoil of the 375 JDJ?? I shoot my 3006 all day and love it...15 inch bull barrel and no brake. Scoped....works great with 165 to 180's..never shot heavier yet.

Compared to the 375 JDJ if I bought a 15" Bull barrel with no brake, ( I like my ears) ,scoped do you thik it would be a big difference in recoil?  I dont know what the guide will think if I show up with a 3006 pistol for Mountain Griz...biggest critter should be around 8 foot sq.

Comment from those who have experience??

Thanks,

Patrick

P.S.   I also shoot handloaded 460 grain Hardcast bullets out of my 45-70 at 1700 FPS, now I also thought about going with a 45-70 barrel but I think the recoil that I would get from my handloads(without significantly lowering the charge) would be severe.Thoughts from the 45-70 crowd?   

[handirifle]

Don't know anything about the JDJ but I'd stick to 180 or 300gr loads from the '06.  I'd use a 180gr (200gr tops) Barnes TSX or the A Frame.

If the range is short, the heavy bullet of the 375 might be better.  Ask you guide, and let him know the velocities you expect.

[xphunter]

Not a bear hunter, so I can't comment there.
I think I would stay with your 06, and ask your guide about the bullet(s) he believes is best.
You know this gun and are comfortable with it.  From what I have heard from most guides is that would rather have a hunter who knows their gun and is comfortable accurate with it than something that is new/untested and whose recoil level has signifigantly increased.
My 2 cents

[EdK]

The factory 375 JDJ ammo doesn't really have the right bullet for your application - you would need to handload or buy custom.
The factory 375 JDJ ammo is only loaded to Contender pressure limits

[Grumulkin]

I shoot T/C rifles in 30/06 and 375 JDJ and the recoil is about the same.

Both the 30/06 and the 375 JDJ should be fine for bear.  If the shooting range would be short, I would go with the 375 JDJ.  If the shooting range would be longer, I would go for the 30/06.

Other than being sure that your handgun is legal for what you intend to hunt, I wouldn't ask the guide anything.  You probably know more about ballistics than he/she does.

As for bullets, I would go with Barnes as long as you can get acceptable accuracy with them.

[handirifle]

Other than being sure that your handgun is legal for what you intend to hunt, I wouldn't ask the guide anything.  You probably know more about ballistics than he/she does.

Aside from the fact that unless you are an AK resident you HAVE to have a guide for Grizzley or Sheep, and he/she might not want to take you on a Griz hunt if they are not comfortable with what you're using, it IS your business.  But. it IS their business to know the round you are using is going to get the job done.  Many guides will tell you what their min cartridge is for bear hunts.  Most post it on their web sites if they have one.

For me personally, I'd feel gunned on the light side with an '06 rifle for a grizz much less a pistol.  You might not, but that is between you AND your guide.

[Lawful Larry]

The factory 375 JDJ ammo doesn't really have the right bullet for your application - you would need to handload or buy custom.
The factory 375 JDJ ammo is only loaded to Contender pressure limits

Hey EdK,
Are you saying that there is now two different load charts for the .375 JDJ, one for the Contender and one for the Encore?  If there is, who is posting it?  I only thought there was one chart.  I have been shooting my JDJ for about three years now and enjoy it greatly.  I normally load the 220 gr bullet, but would think of a 260 or 300 gr. bullet for the ol' griz. 

Now I have no data on the rilfe/carbine, but have loaded for the Contender 14".  I wish someone would fill in the blanks for the rifle/carbine.  I would only consider a 100 yard shot or less with the Contender.  With something a little less dangerous, I would go out to 200yds.

If someone has the long gun ballistic data, please let's hear it.     

[EdK]

No not two different loads. It's just that the 375 JDJ factory loadings are limited by the strength of the Contender frame. Patrick is looking for a Griz round for an Encore and while theoretically the 375 JDJ could be loaded to higher pressure for the Encore, I do not know of any such data and it is highly unlikely TC would load and sell it lest it get accidentally fired in a Contender. SSK sells a second line of JDJ#2 wildcats specifically for the Encore. I think there is a 375 in that series as well as one could always get a 375 H&H.

The Hornady 220gr flatpoint bullet is a fine bullet from deer to elk/moose but I wouldn't try it on a Griz. African game hunters use a custom loaded 270-300gr spitzer in the JDJ for the big 5 and so forth.

[Lawful Larry]

I know that I love my JDJ, but I just can't see me trying to shoot a beefed up loaded round in an Encore.  I don't think I could handle the recoil.  I think it would even hurt my shooting gloves!   

[jamie]

I know you have these two rounds in mind but have you considered the 460 S&W?  According to SSk they got 2650 fps in a 14" Encore barrel with 200 grn Barnes factory loadings.  I believe this may be a tad faster than the 06 with a 200 grn bullet, not too mention the larger cross section.  And if needed you can easily go up in bullet weight.  Just a thought.

[handirifle]

I know you have these two rounds in mind but have you considered the 460 S&W?  According to SSk they got 2650 fps in a 14" Encore barrel with 200 grn Barnes factory loadings.  I believe this may be a tad faster than the 06 with a 200 grn bullet, not too mention the larger cross section.  And if needed you can easily go up in bullet weight.  Just a thought.

I'm not sure about bullet selection in the 460, I thought it was loaded as more of a deer round.  The bullets might be a bit soft.  There may be loading I'm not familiar with too.  Just a thought.

[jamie]

It is possible that they are too soft but with a 250 barnes or a 260grn partition I figured they would be more than strong enough.

[patrick.hover]

Fellas, thanks for the thought and inputs..wish we were all sitting around a campfire at night enjoying a good cup of coffee and smack in the middle of a week long hunt!!!

I might consider my 45-70 loads for this hunt...although I feel some testing comming on for my trusty '06 with some 200 grain swift A frame or some Barnes triple shock 180's.

my long gun in 45-70 (marlin guide with a 18 inch barrel is putting out 460 grain Cast Performance lead bullets @ 1740 FPS...this migh t be a beast to light off in my Encore but it WILL do the job....I just wanted something that I could put some range on the shot if it happens to be at 200-250 yards.  dont think I would shoot much past 150 yds with the 45-70. too much holdover.

With my FACTORY Federal Fusion 180 grain loads going out the door @ 2500 FPS( my chrony test) and that great Encores ability to keep MOA out to 300 yards I feel very confident that the '06 could do the job in the accuracy dept. just want to make sure I have a bullet that will penetrate but I think most premium bullets would considered the slower velocity....Lots to ponder.

Ill keep you all in the loop.

Patrick.

[Del]

The .375 JDJ w/the right load is a proven killer, that is no doubt.

But I think you are on the right track w/your .30-06...........
Provided you use a good premium bullet like the 2 you spoke of, Barnes triple shock "X" 180 grn or the 200 grn Swift A-frame.
You have said this is a gun / barrel combination that you are comfortable with, being comfortable & confident w/your firearm usually means you will put the bullet where it needs to go.  Work up a powerful load w/one of the premium bullets you mention for your .30-06, put that bullet where it needs to go on that first shot, and you will have a successful hunt!!  

As a side note, I would contact the guide to let him know well in advance of your trip, what you intend to bring as your firearm & load of choice.  Most guides have a "minimum" that they will take a client out with.  I know an old timer here in Alaska that hunted & killed his moose every year for 30 years w/a .243 winchester.  When I went wild boar hunting in California, the guide stated they will NOT take clients out w/.243 riles or .357 handguns, you have to have something bigger then that or they will loan you something of acceptable caliber.  

[patrick.hover]

Thanks Del, for the encouraging words ,  know bears have fallen to the '06 and will so for many years to come!!! If shot in the wrong place with a .458 win mag you still have a problem on your hands...

NICE Dall !

[patrick.hover]

New Idea...Mike at OTT chambering a .325 WSM in a 15 inch Bull barrel.

Anyone have a Eencore pistola in .325 WSM yet...If so how does it shoot?

Patrick.