The Power of a Well Placed Shot

[T.R.]

I'm now over 50 and been on the big game trail since I was 14.  Many animals have fallen to my well placed bullets.  I've learned a few things but do not know it all. Animal reaction to a well placed bullet is not always as predictable as we assume. 

I've watched big mulies topple over in their tracks at 200 yards or so from a 170 grain 30-30 bullet through both lungs. I've also seen 'em bound away as if missed at 75 yards or so, then topple after a few jumps.  It is a mystery to me.

I've harvested many coastal blacktails with my 44MAG carbine.  Reactions have astounded me.  One buck rose up on his hind legs and pawed the air like a stallion. Then he toppled over backward and kicked a few times. Another buck charged away and hit the ground stone dead in mid-stride. His chin plowed a shallow furrow in the dirt. Several blacktails just folded up and fell where they stood.

Antelope nearly always drop in their tracks from a double lung hit from my .243 rifle. These fascinating animals seem fragile compared to other big game animals.

Elk get a lot of press.  "Bigger is better" according to so-called experts who write columns for magazines funded by ads by magnum focused gun manufacturers.  Am I the only one who noticed that elk are not armor-plated? Please show me a big bull who can stand up to a double lung hit from a 300 Savage, .308, 30-06, 7mm-08 or 6.5mm Swede.  Just show me one bull who can get away after such damage?  This animal does not exist.  Elk are not armor-plated despite what that southern Californian urbanite named Craig Boddington is paid to write!

Animals are killed quickly by well placed bullets that form a mushroom shape, hold together, and punch through hide and ribs. Animals are wounded by poor shooting, inadequate comprehension of basic anatomy, and bullets that fail to penetrate through hide and ribs. The diameter of the un-expanded bullet and velocity are lethal factors to consider but will never make up for poor shooting.

Good hunting to you.
TR

[Grumulkin]

I agree, a knowledge of game anatomy and shot placement is the most important.  I think their is undue concern with caliber and bullet construction (assuming the bullet is made of lead and/or copper).  Everything (even water) has to be "premium."  Apparently hunters are believing the ads by the droves.  I'm amazed as all the angst that choosing a bullet/caliber for Elk and even Whitetail Deer entails.  Elephant have been killed with the 22 LR!  In the Hodgdon reloading magazine/manual that came out this year, there is an old letter to Bob Milek about the suitability of the 257 Roberts for Elk; he indicates that it's a perfectly acceptable choice.  Now if you wish to kill an Elk by shooting it in the butt, I would suggest something like a 375 H&H Magnum with as premium a bullet as you can get.

As far as Craig Boddington is concerned, I recently came to understand that he is not a whore.  In a recent magazine article he said that for some situations (game) a more lightly structured bullet that came apart after hitting the animal (provided penetration was adequate to reach vital organs) was good.  I'm also reading a book of his about shooting big game and thus far I haven't run across anything that I have a serious disagreement with.

[Don Fischer]

I think that some people, probally a minority, use super premium bullets in a effort to create what they think is the perfect load. Their own version of "fail safe". Weather they are right or wrong doesn't really matter. A well placed 117gr Hornady from a 25-06 will kill every bit as well as any premium bullet with good shot placement. Where I think the problem comes in is that the majority of shooters are casual shooters that don't really understand much about balistics or anatomy. They read or listen to whoever their expert may be and try to be like him with little reguard to what really kills. There are just a few people on this site that I believe could turn a 223 Rem into a deadly biggame cartridge but I've never seem them endorse it. then you see those that do endorse it but only with premium bullets. The bullet seems to make up for deficency in cal and bullet weight. Those people that I believe could do it, always seem to talk of heavy for cal bullets but also acknowledge the value of mid range weights. I've never seen one speak of using light for cal bullets just by going to premiums. But there is a following of those that want to use larger capacity cases with light weight premiun bullets, probally for a couple reasons. 1) lighter bullets equals less recoil and 2) lighter equals higher MV and they think they can reach long range better. On #1, if you can't handle the recoil, theres better ways, smaller capacity case comes to mind or step down in bullet dia to use a lighter bullet. #2 the longer bullets are heavier and longer. Because of that, they retain velocity better and deliever more down range energy. To what practical advantage all this is at normal hunting ranges, I'm not sure. Most animals are killed well under 200yds. But in the end, any bullet, even light for cal, will kill quickly IF the shooter understands where to put that bullet and is practiced enough to do it. I think more are not than are. I say that from watching to many people shoot and reading some fine stories that are full of holes.

An example that comes to mind of stories was a guy in Montana years ago. A bunch of us were shooting the breeze and this guy came up with an elk that took 3 7mm mag 175gr bullets in the lungs and ran off. Acording to the story teller, they tracked that elk 20mi befor putting in the finishing shot. He spoke with authority and may well be a believeable story to some, hog wash! You put 3 175 gr bullets into the lungs of an elk and it's not going 20mi. These stories and people that shoot better with their computer is a big reason why somethings irritate me so much; people are reading this and the new and unknowing are buying it to often! The result is more inexperienced un-qualified shooters blasting away with rifles they can't handle. Whatever it is we may do, I wish advice was kept to what's prudent. We would all benefit from that.

Well so much for that rant!

[beemanbeme]

I think the group that says with casual aplomb, "it ain't the calibre, its where you put it..." are trying to imply that they are cool, dead-eyed marksmen that never make a bad shot nor are they ever presented with a shot that is less than perfect.  And, on rare occassion, they might be right.  Most of them, however, IMHO, do most of their hunting and shooting from an armchair.
 Point to be made, you can drive a railroad spike with a tack hammer, but why?  When there are so many better tools available to do the job. 
Again, I think what drives much of the obsession with velocity is not everyone understands ballistics but we learn "speed" with our mother's milk.  Standing around the water cooler, if you tell what the cubic displacement of your car motor is, about 99% of the folks will give you the "Duh" look.  But if you tell them it will go 150 miles per hour, they are impressed.
I agree that most any reasonable cartridge will do for an elk, but I would have to add, "with a proper bullet" which, to me, usually means a heavy for calibre bullet.  By that I mean I'd much rather hunt an elk with a 7-08 and a 160gr bullet @2500fps than a 7-08 and a 120gr bullet @3000fps.

[Don Fischer]

                                        I'd much rather hunt an elk with a 7-08 and a 160gr bullet @2500fps than a 7-08 and a 120gr bullet @3000fps.
                               ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think I'd rather hunt elk with a 7-08 and a 160gr bullet than a 300 mag and a 165gr bullet.

[Dave in WV]

I read an article about a year ago that seemed to explain how deer hit the same place with the same load will react differently. The article was written by two game biologists in Virginia. They were culling deer and did autopsies on them. They found some deer had brain damage and the others didn't. Their theory is if the bullet hits the heart lung area when the heart makes a pressure surge in the cadio vascular system a pressure spike is transmitted to the brain and an instant kill is made.

[daddywpb]

T.R.,

Just an afterthought - I had an opportunity to talk with Mr. Boddington at a Bass Pro Shop Hunting Classic where he was a speaker. My impression was that he is a good speaker and probably a good shooter -  a career in the military will do that, but as a hunter, I'm not so sure. He is good at following directions from a guide, but I'd love to see how he would do by himself on a 100% wild, fair chase hunt on public land, not placed in a stand by a guide on a ranch with a guaranteed kill. That is the only way I have seen him hunt on TV. I posed that question to him, and the conversation ended immediately. He gathered his stuff and walked away without another word. Was it an unfair question? Maybe. I do enjoy his writing, but was not impressed with him in person. Just my opinion.

[beemanbeme]

I doubt that you made the "A" list for his next party either.       

[TNrifleman]

Well said, TR, well said. My 6.5x55 is pure poison on whitetails.

[daddywpb]

I doubt that you made the "A" list for his next party either.       

Probably not, but he is a celebrity of sorts. If you don't want questions from the audiance, don't ask for them.

[Kragman71]

I'm now over 50 and been on the big game trail since I was 14.  Many animals have fallen to my well placed bullets.  I've learned a few things but do not know it all. Animal reaction to a well placed bullet is not always as predictable as we assume. 

I've watched big mulies topple over in their tracks at 200 yards or so from a 170 grain 30-30 bullet through both lungs. I've also seen 'em bound away as if missed at 75 yards or so, then topple after a few jumps.  It is a mystery to me.

I've harvested many coastal blacktails with my 44MAG carbine.  Reactions have astounded me.  One buck rose up on his hind legs and pawed the air like a stallion. Then he toppled over backward and kicked a few times. Another buck charged away and hit the ground stone dead in mid-stride. His chin plowed a shallow furrow in the dirt. Several blacktails just folded up and fell where they stood.

Antelope nearly always drop in their tracks from a double lung hit from my .243 rifle. These fascinating animals seem fragile compared to other big game animals.

Elk get a lot of press.  "Bigger is better" according to so-called experts who write columns for magazines funded by ads by magnum focused gun manufacturers.  Am I the only one who noticed that elk are not armor-plated? Please show me a big bull who can stand up to a double lung hit from a 300 Savage, .308, 30-06, 7mm-08 or 6.5mm Swede.  Just show me one bull who can get away after such damage?  This animal does not exist.  Elk are not armor-plated despite what that southern Californian urbanite named Craig Boddington is paid to write!

Animals are killed quickly by well placed bullets that form a mushroom shape, hold together, and punch through hide and ribs. Animals are wounded by poor shooting, inadequate comprehension of basic anatomy, and bullets that fail to penetrate through hide and ribs. The diameter of the un-expanded bullet and velocity are lethal factors to consider but will never make up for poor shooting.

Good hunting to you.
TR

TR
You started a thread identical to this one here,on a different website,and Craig Boddington wound up getting raked over,just like he's getting here.
I never was a big fan of his,but i'm feeling sorry for him right now.He is a 'big gun' promoter,but so is the majority of Gunwriters.That's where the money is; iin new products.He did'nt coin the term"bring enough gun".
There is one posituve about being overgunned.If you shoot and miss the sweetspot on the game,and hit the shoulder,the animal will go down and you will have a chance for a second shot.If you hit both shoulders you'll have an easy follow up shot.
Frank

[Forest Walker]

I look at it this way Roy Weatherby shot 1 or 2 Cape Buffs with a 257 Weatherby without a problem and P.O. Ackley shot a whitetail or 2 with a .17 Javlina and it dropped dead where it stood, Poachers have been killing big game with a 22 lr since long before I came to be. It aint the gun its the placement that kills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!