remington 597 problems

[jh45gun]

This is slightly off topic but it seems like Remington does not care what they put their name on anymore. Take a look at the latest bolt gun they make that is a centerfire. A cheap matt surface, Stiff bolt compared to the 700 and a detachable magazine that rattles worse than a baby rattle. Compared to a 700 this gun should have never been made. I know Savage can make a bargain gun that still is a nice gun why Remington made this cheap bolt gun is beyond me.

[NONYA]

The 710 looks and feels like a pos compared to the 700 but they shoot,no doubt about it.I picked up a couple of the russian made rem spartan sgs,didnt like anything about them.

[Nopal]

I never said you couldn't put enough money into a 597 to get it to work but why would you? Who wants to put $200 worth of parts in a $100 rifle just to get it to function? I'd rather pay $300 and it work.  I couldn't get rid of mine fast enough and I tried all the fixes and read everything at rimfirecentral.  What finally convinced me was a man whom I trust and has been a gunsmith for longer than most of us have been alive, showed me in detail why the 597 is garbage.  The mags are potmetal and the follower hangs up on burrs that come from the factory that way.  He tore a brand new mag from the package and showed me.  Also the ejector is too short and ground (I should say stamped) at the wrong angle.  The guide rod thing is not really that big a deal if the screws are not tight to the point of bending the rods.  I guess my biggest gripe with the 597 is that Remington could fix it with hardly any effort.  All they need to do is recut the die that punches out the ejectors and make the mags out of steel.  This would cost them very little on the manufactoring end but instead they continue to peddle a broken rifle right out of the box because it's cheaper to get you the consumer to fix it and from the sounds of it, you did.   

You are being disingenuous.  No one has mentioned $200 worth of parts to make the 597 shoot.  I am talking about 10 minutes worth of work and $0 in parts, or if you want an excellent trigger too, an additional $40.

The older magazines work well if you don't load them to capacity.  There have been 3 generations of magazines, and the new ones work well with all 10 rounds (the ones with a 10 in a circle on the side).  In fact, if you call Remington and tell them you've got a problem with your mags, they'll usually just send you a new one that works just fine.  But if a burr in the follower is, as you've stated, the problem, what is so hard about filing that burr down anyway?

The guide rods are the very heart of the 597's design and a huge deal.  Thousands of satisfied 597 owners at rimfirecentral can attest to that.  They can also attest to the fact that the 597 is a very reliable and extremely accurate design, but you have to stop thinking like your friend the gunsmith and step "out of the box."  He may be very knowledgeable as far as other firearms, but obviously not about the 597.

If you keep saying things like "guide rods are not important so long as you don't tighten them too much" and the "extractor is the wrong angle" you are saying things that go against the general consensus at rimfirecentral's Remington forum, so please understand if I find hard to believe that you read much there.

I've had to do work on all my rifles regardless of brand because none are perfect out of the box, but the more expensive ones are usuallly better.  Just yesterday, I had to stone down a magazine catch on a new $140 CD zastava to get it to work just right (and that was more work than I originally did to my 597, btw).  For what I paid for the rifle, I'm OK with that.  I'm willing to do that to any rifle that, like the 597, can keep up rifles such as highly-modified, souped-up 10/22s for just a small fraction of the cost.  If I had to do that to a big $$$ Anschutz or a VQ, then I'd be pissed.  But leaving that aside, it's always a good idea to dissasemble and clean any new firearm before shooting it, and most 597's "fixes" involve little more than cleaning the factory crud and reassembling anyway, except you go very light on the lube and the rod screw tension.

[Keith L]

"I'm willing to do that to any rifle that, like the 597, can keep up rifles such as highly-modified, souped-up 10/22s for just a small fraction of the cost"

I have yet to see one that can come close to either of my 10-22s.  Not saying yours can't but most aren't even close.

[Nopal]

"I'm willing to do that to any rifle that, like the 597, can keep up rifles such as highly-modified, souped-up 10/22s for just a small fraction of the cost"

I have yet to see one that can come close to either of my 10-22s.  Not saying yours can't but most aren't even close.

How much do you have invested in your 10/22s, and how often have you shot against 597s?  I'm not saying that your 10/22s don't shoot very well or that every single 597 will shoot better than every single 10/22.  I'm talking about overall value, and it's usually said that the 597's design has more accuracy potential right out of the box, and many do group like 10/22s with several hundred's worth of upgrades.

On a related note, do you know that the first (and as far as I know, only) perfect 250 shot with an autoloader in an official USBR match was shot by Brian Voelker with a modified 597?  As far as I know, no one has done that with a 10/22 yet.

[30-30man]

 Who would buy a car that had to be rebuilt, reassembled, and given only 5 gallons of gas at a time to get it to run?  Nobody, that is why they no longer make Yugos and one of the reasons the 597 has a limited lifespan.  If Remington's designs were so great in the 22lr semi auto, why do they no longer make the Viper?  Ruger and Marlin have not changed the 10-22/Model 60 for years.  There were many fixes for the Yugo too but in the end all you had was a rebuilt beautified turd.  I wish the 597 was fixed as it has a great feel to it.  We could debate the causes for days but it is Remington who needs to fix it.  I am very impatient, I'll agree.  When it comes to my money, I want the gun I buy to work, that is why I no longer buy Remington's 22 semi-autos. If they love them on another board, that's great.  Maybe you would get the reaponse you're looking for over there.

[Nopal]

Who would buy a car that had to be rebuilt, reassembled, and given only 5 gallons of gas at a time to get it to run?  Nobody, that is why they no longer make Yugos and one of the reasons the 597 has a limited lifespan.  If Remington's designs were so great in the 22lr semi auto, why do they no longer make the Viper?  Ruger and Marlin have not changed the 10-22/Model 60 for years.  There were many fixes for the Yugo too but in the end all you had was a rebuilt beautified turd.  I wish the 597 was fixed as it has a great feel to it.  We could debate the causes for days but it is Remington who needs to fix it.  I am very impatient, I'll agree.  When it comes to my money, I want the gun I buy to work, that is why I no longer buy Remington's 22 semi-autos. If they love them on another board, that's great.  Maybe you would get the reaponse you're looking for over there.

Actually, I think that the 597 replaced the nylon.  The nylon was a rifle that sold and was in production until the machine dies wore out and it became too expensive to replace them.  So Remington, except for the viper, does make succesful autoloaders.  The Remington 552, too, has been in continuous production longer than the 10/22 (1957 vs. 1964), but the 10/22 has become more popular because it is cheaper.

And as far as the 10/22, it got it's start pretty much like the 597 has.  Ever heard of the term jam-o-matic?  Guess where that came from?  Yes, from the original 10/22s and the huge headaches that they gave to their first owners.  The 10/22 is now a mature design, and has been for quite awhile.  Remington folks realized they couldn't compete with it in terms of mods, so they decided to introduce a new low-cost rifle to compete in the accuracy department (the 597), and that rifle is now reaching maturity, just like the 10/22 did thirty years ago.

You are indeed very impatient, but that's not why I'm posting here.  I'm posting because you apparently are also prone to exaggeration and I don't like to see folks that are, as they say where I come from, drowning in a glass of water.  Plus, I don't like FUD, either.



Edit:  The 597 did indeed followed the viper, not the nylon.  The viper, in turn, was a replacement for the nylon 66/77 which Remington sold over a million of.  I double checked and had to correct that for clarity's sake.

[Keith L]

One of the 10/22s has over $1000 in it and is a sweet shooter.  The other one is less than $400 and is not a slouch either.  I have never shot against anyone with either gun, but have known a few who tried 597s.  None of them were any where near as consistent or as reliable as my rugers.  I still have my 10-22s.  I don't know anyone who has a 597 anymore.

I am glad yours works well for you.  We all need to shoot what we like.  And it really doesn't make any difference what anyone else thinks.

[30-30man]

Yeah, I'm glad you like the 597.  I don't think it is an exaggeration when I say that the 597 has problems that Remington should fix before they leave the factory.  I know the 597 is not the only rifle with problems but it has had so many compared to other designs.   Before the 597 was available to the public it was sent to a number of repair centers for evaluation and review.  I have held one of the first 597s.  Other than the mag, it was no different than the one I brought in to get fixed. I don't think anyone can say Remington changed anything but the magazines.  The old gunsmith I'm referring to showed me an email sent in coordination with at least three other repair centers that stated the problems of the 597.  He then showed me on my rifle and the prototype they sent him.  He could have cared less what I did with the rifle.  He just wanted me to know what I had bought.  He was getting out of the business and wasn't trying to sell me anything.  I learned from first hand experience by a gunsmith I trust.  I didn't learn it from reading the rag on the internet...So let's just agree to disagree as I know there are some including yourself who love the 597.  I'd rather have a Marlin, Ruger, or even a slingshot. 

[NONYA]

Even a good sturdy stick with a sharp end would be more reliable than a 597 that hasnt been "fixed",they are junk no 2 ways about it,ANY gun you have to break down and modify just to get it to shoot new out of the box is JUNK.You spend less and buy a good reliable shooter like a marlin or 10/22,they shoot WITHOUT being reworked and finished like they should have been from the factory.

[ironglow]

 I can only say that I have stayed away from the 597 due to what my friends who own them have told me.

   There are a couple misconceptions that have been stated here that I would like to speak to..
   I bought my first 10/22 in 1965 when I was a GI stationed in Germany...serial # 66XX  so it is a "first year" production model.
   I also got one of those cheap, little 3/4" steel Weaver scopes along with it..
 
  As soon as duty permitted, I took that puppy down to the local German range. Naturally, the locals were interested in looking it over carefully..being an entirely new design.
   
  Firing on the 50 meter targets, after some sighting in time and some distain from the Germans on the firing line about it being "automatish" I started punching paper (loading and firing singly).
  After a bit, I went over to where their targets were lying.. spread out on the scoring table. Seeing that my groups were smaller than most all of theirs..from their costly German bolt rifles, I put my targets down and simply said.."automatish"..
 
  We all enjoyed a chuckle out of that...or ALMOST all !

  No, later models don't seem to shoot that well. Can't explain why except some say that the early models got their barrels from  custom makers (e.g. GM and Shilen)..don't know..
 
   This original model has shot right up there with some later "tricked out" 10/22s I've built up; sometimes surpassing them..

   "Jam-o-matic"..not in ANY of the 10/22 models I have owned..until I started adding the now popular bull barrels.
  My original 10/22 has not had enough jams to consider it as even a MINOR problem.. and most of them were when the spring in the original magazine finally weakened, after ?? thousands of rounds.

   Final question...How much do you have invested in your 10/22 ?
    As I recall, with the Post Rod&Gun club (PX) discount..It cost me $39.50..that is somewhat under $1 per year that I have owned it !
  I have been giving many of my guns to my grandkids as keepsakes in recent years...but this one stays with me until they "pry it from my cold, dead fingers"..to give it to next in line !...LOL 

[30-30man]

Wait a minute you convinced me!!!!!The 597, the best door stop, boat paddle,tomato stake, baseball bat, golf club ever made!  Anyone who says different, I'll give them a what for!!!Psssssssssssssst The 597 is a POS!

[Nopal]

Keith L,

You've got some good 10/22s there.  I like your attitude man.  Let people shoot whatever they like and works for them.  I wish others around here learned from that.

But alas, some folk around here seem to feel personally offended that others like the 597, to the point of sounding, how shall we put that mildly, silly?  Given the level of FUD some spread you'd think their manhood had been insulted or something.  I don't care if someone's delicate sensiblities get damaged by good shooting 597s, I just don't like it when people bash a gun while at the same time putting forth so little in the way of facts.


Ironglow,

Good you got a nice 10/22 as well.  Like I've said in my previous post, I wasn't saying that every single 597 will shoot better than every single 10/22.  I am aware of some 10/22s that shoot wonderfully right out of the box, and some 597s that don't shoot so well.  By and large, though, by researching around the net, I've found out that it often tends to be the other way around.  There are quite a few very early 597s that have functioned flawlessly and shot tiny groups from day one, too.

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not trying to diss the 10/22, but as far as I know, the term "jam-o-matic" did use to refer to the 10/22, and in particular to the problems that some 10/22s  used to have vis-a-vis the rotary magazine, which was  brand new at the time.


30-30man,

What can I say?  You need to relax or your blood pressure may begin to suffer.  But I've answered all of your other "issues" with the 597 so I'll answer the one you raised in your previous, more civil post, and ignore your latter one.

The answer is "Yes."  Remington has been tweaking the 597's design throughout the years.  Nothing major, but little things seem to make a big difference.  The sporter versions of the rifle has different sights than it did before.  Todays' rifles feature an ejector with a different geometry than the first rifles, and the firing pin has been redesigned at least once.  Apparently, the factory seems to be assembling the rifles with a little less pressure on the guide rods nowadays, but it's still a bit much, IMHO.

Now, I don't fancy myself an expert on the 597, but I happen to know how to look things up.  For a rifle that you hate you seem to have a lot of misconceptions and if I can clear any more questions, you're welcome to ask.

If all you have to say are puerile and senseless comments, well, I can't help you with that.

[NONYA]

Ive bought one and shot 2 others,all junk,you let me know when rem puts one out that is as dependable as a 10/22 or Marlin 60 and Illl run right down and buy one,im a rem fanatic and would love to own one I could count on,havnt seen a 597 yet that fits the bill,you should hit the pawn shops around here,you could pick up a truck load of your favorite 597s CHEAP.

[Nopal]

Ive bought one and shot 2 others,all junk,you let me know when rem puts one out that is as dependable as a 10/22 or Marlin 60 and Illl run right down and buy one,im a rem fanatic and would love to own one I could count on,havnt seen a 597 yet that fits the bill,you should hit the pawn shops around here,you could pick up a truck load of your favorite 597s CHEAP.

Well, you're welcome to try my recommendations and those of other happy 597 owners at the forum I've mentioned before.  Or, you can ignore them.  Whatever you choose, my 597 will keep shooting just the same.

As far as Remington putting out a rifle that's as dependable as a 10/22 or Marlin, I've already mentioned two.  The Nylon 66/77 and model 550/552 are both thought to be more dependable than either a 10/22 or a Marlin, and I'm not trying to knock on either rifle (http://www.chuckhawks.com/rem_nylon_rifles.htm) (http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178251&highlight=Remington+552+reliability).  I happen to like the Marlin 60 myself.

Remington has this funny thing about coming up with new and radical designs every so often.  It's called "innovation" and when it comes to autoloaders they have been at the cutting edge for some time.  They released the first plastic action (and I do mean action, not just stock) and the first and only floating chamber action.  I'm talking about the aforementioned nylons and 550-series rifles, both of which have a reputation for legendary reliability.  Few companies have done more to advance blow-back rifle design.

Now, they've released an innovative twin-guide-rod design with the 597, and I believe it's a very good design, but a bit "misunderstood" precisely because it is different.

[30-30man]

I see that you are new here and I don't want you to get the wrong impression. I'm glad you like the 597.  I never meant to be mean spirited, nasty, or rude.  Heck, I have enjoyed our little chat.   Like it or not most consumers would be better off buying something else.   It just amazes me how loyal we Americans can be.  We put up with junk when it carries a name.  Well the name Remington has taken a hit as of late. They still make good bolt guns and shot guns mostly but they are dabbling to close to the dung pile when it comes to cheap guns.  I don't call it being innovative either.  I call it riding on past good works and pawning off sub par products on the unsuspecting consumer.  If innovation is what Remington was after, they would have never discontinued the Viper and left millions of customers without any help on fixing the magazines that kept falling out. Plastic has no place in a gun action.  It was just a cheap way to manufacture a product.  Why did Remington insist on using plastic then pot metal in the 597 mag , when steel would solve most of the problems. It is cheap peiod. Casting is cheaper than stamping and forming. They pawn it off as being some kind of alloy which pot metal is and lighter weight which it is not really.  It is just cheaper.  Remington is infamous for doing that.  Why do you think they now peddle Russian O/U now.  It is cheaper not that the quality is any better.  Remington is all about cutting corners now and cares nothing about quality control.  The last Remington I bought was a youth model 870.  I should have inspected it more closely but I thought, it's an 870; they are perfect.  When I got home, I found that the threads cut into the barrel for the choke  ran half way down the barrel.  I have never bought another.

[NONYA]

Rem has really shot themselves in the foot as of late,I love Remingtons but I know a pos when i shoot one,the plastic guns are not innovative they are cheap junk sold for the same price as a good reliable semi like a 10/22,nothing will ever be more reliable than a 10/22,my grandfathers was bought in the late 60,s and has been in his truck ever since,it still functions like brand new and illl bet it hasnt been cleaned 10 times since he got it.My 10/22s have had thousands of rounds through them and I have never had a problem that wasnt fixed by a good cleaning.They need to scrap the 597 and come out with a quality rifle that people wont have to dump money into and modify to get them to shot.

[ironglow]

  I sometimes wonder what goes on in corporate boardrooms..perhaps someone here who attends such meetings can enlighten me !
   Case to wit !...
   
    Even though I chose my 10/22 over the Nylon 66 back in 1965 when both models were rather young, I didn't look upon the Nylon 66 as a "bad rifle" . I just firgured that the 10/22 fitted my ideal better..
  In fact, very early on as I recall, Remington had a professional shooter establish a record for shooting 2" wood blocks out of the air and doing it with great reliability.
  Many people who own the Nylon 66 really appreciate them and treasure them . Still others are willing today, to pay a premium price to get one..

   Question is: Why in the world would any corporate decision be made to scrap the Nylon 66 series..in favor of the Viper ?

  ...And to many, the 597 does not match the dependability of the Nylon 66... SO WHY ?

  Perhaps Remington should reintroduce the Nylon 66 ..with the new management..maybe they will !

[Nopal]

Ironglow,

As far as the nylon getting taken off the market, it apparently had to do with economics.  Given the cost of re-tooling after the orginal machinery wore down, it seems that the rifle was selling for too little given to make it worthwhile.  So they either had to up the cost, or design a new rifle that was cheaper to manufacture.


30-30man,

Remington does not use pot metal.  "Pot metal" is made primarily, of zinc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal).  The 597's receiver is primarily aluminum, like that of any other inexpensive autoloader.  The magazines are mostly aluminum as well, but because they aren't fininshed after casting, they do retain somewhat of a "pot metal" look.
 
But you are right that the rifle was made in such a way as to be inexpensive.  The basic model's price is closer to a Marlin 60 than to a 10/22.  And that's what the 597 is.  An inexpensive autolader that for the most part functions well and shoots far more accurately than it's price would suggest.  In those instances where it doesn't function well, the rifle can usually be made to shoot with a little bit of know-how and a few minutes worth of work.  That, all along, has been my main point.

As far as brand loyalty, I only own 2 Remington firearms and I am currently planning to get rid of one of them, and no, it's not my 597.  My 597 is a keeper.  So, I am not some sort of brand-nut, just  a little bit less likely to jump into the "model x" is junk bandwagon without giving brand-x a fair shake.

[NONYA]

When model X needs new clips,metal finishing and modification that should be done by a gunsmith to make it nearly as dependable as model A,B, and C right out of the box for the same price,why bother?
 

[His lordship.]

I had a later production 597, liked the gun, but sold it at a loss as it would jam in colder weather, the bolt would cause stove piping, and the clip would act like it was filled with molasis.  In the warm weather, the gun worked fine.  Accurate too. 

My local gun shop refused to buy it from me, he still has several 597's that will not sell.  Fnally unloaded it at a gunshow.  I really should have kept it now that I think of it.

[30-30man]

"There is no scientific metallurgical standard for pot metal (which is a slang term), but it is also known as white metal, die-cast zinc and often derisively as monkey metal."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal

 The 597's mag could be made out of any alloy but it is not 100% aluminum and it is cast.  Thus it is potmetal.   I have a Marlin with a clip that got stepped on by my grandson. I was able to bend it back into shape and reuse it.   If it were the clip of the 597, it would have chipped or broken. Steel would fix the magazine problems of the 597.  It is just a better material. The other problem just involves the angle of the ejector. This would be an easy fix.  Just cut another die.  That would cost money and Remington is happy letting the repair centers handle it, which a great deal of them have refused. They will not carry the 597 and want to send it off to another center that does. The same thing happened with the Viper. The only fix for the Viper was a bottle of glue and a plastic insert. This fixed it until you shot another brick of ammo and had the same problems all over again  This is enough for anyone to notice a pattern.  As far as giving Remington a fair shake.  I've tried with the Viper and the 597.  They were both junk and most of the others I've seen had the same problems.  Around here, Walmart was the only one that carried the 597 anyway. The gun shops in town, which there are three, refuse to carry it.  Now Walmart has stopped selling firearms altogether in my town.  I think Remington needs to rethink the 597 if it is going to last.  It could be a great gun with only a few changes.  As for now, until they change the 597, I will encourage anyone to look at Marlin, Savage, Ruger, and even Mossberg for a cheap semi.  I'm glad your happy with the 597 and got yours to shoot.  AS far as accuracy goes, the Remington does well as does Marlin/Savage out of the box but if I had wanted a single shot, I'd bought an H&R.  The thing that gripes me and a lot of other past and present 597 owners is most of us would have been willing to pay more for a functioning rifle out of the box.   I guess it boils down to choices. Ask yourself If you could go to a local gun store and buy three guns of each make, Ruger 10-22, Marlin 60, and Remington 597.  Then run a brick of cheap bulk ammo  through each of them with full magazine capacity each time.  What are the odds of the Remington functioning equal to or better than the other makes? If you were the betting sort would you put any money on it?  If you would, there might be some members who would like to cash in on that one.  I don't bet but I know enough to recognize a loosing proposition.   

[Keith L]

I can't speak for the 597 never having owned one.  I did know a couple guys who had their troubles with them.  I had a Marlin 60 that was so unreliable that I got rid of it, but some guys like them.  I have two 10-22s, both with bull barrels, that have never failed me once, shooting a mix of ammo including Remington bulk pack that my Buckmark can't make work reliably.

I also have other Remington .22s, including the Nylon 66 my father taught me to shoot with, and an old bolt action repeater that I got for $10.00 at a farm auction.  When I got all the barn paint and cow crap off of that one, and gave it a good cleaning, it has been a fine shooter.  Those two will be among the guns that my boys will get when I have no more need for them.

So whatever trips your trigger, guys.  I never set out to be a 10-22 guy, and one of them I did spend enough to have gotten a first rate bolt .22, but they work, and I like them.  We all should be shooting something we like.

[ironglow]

  I have to agree with Keith on this one..if it works for you, and you like it..great !

  For those who are on a budget and still want decent accuracy, those Marlin 60s and 795s sure look great for a tad over $100 at Walmart. Then there is the Savage 64 at even a bit less $$..

  All those models mentioned above have a good reputation for accuracy.

[Nopal]

30-30man, So, anything that is cast aluminum alloy is pot metal?  Well, I guess that means the 10/22s and the Marlins have pot metal receivers, then, because before they are milled, they are also cast from aluminum alloy (not 100% aluminum).

As far as the chances of getting a bad rifle between the big 3 brands, I thought about that before buying the 597 myself.  I read plenty around the net and I figured that I did had a somewhat greater chance of ending with a "problem gun", but even then I figured it was still a very small percentage.  I've had Remington do work on other firearms before, and I knew that they would make it right with 597 in the off chance that they had to.  As it turned out, after dissasembling and cleaning my new 597 according to other folk's recommendations, my rifle turned out to be utterly reliable and I never looked back.

But anyway, I agree with you gentlemen, on one thing:  It's a free country, and we can shoot whatever we want.  As I've said before, I like the Marlins myself and almost bought a stainless/laminate model 60 in place of the 597.  The 597 enjoys a little bit more aftermarket support than the Marlins and I kept that in mind, but what finally convinced me to get the 597 was it's handling, feel, and balance.  It just fit me better and pointed more naturally than the Marlin.  Your results may vary.


Chris D,

It sounds like your problem goes back to my original post.  You probably had too much lube on the guide rods and it was thickening up with the cold weather.  Since the tolerances between rods and bolt are fairly tight, a little bit of extra lube can make a big difference.  Your problem might have been fixed by going very lightly on the lube, or by switching lubes.  Some guys even run their 597s without any lube in the guide rods at all, and they function just fine.  I use a very light coat of Remington dry lube on the rods of my rifle.  Anyway, it's all a moot point now because you no longer have the rifle, but I'm somewhat compulsive about commenting on things like these.

[30-30man]

Pot metal cannot be machined.  It contains air bubbles that make the casting brittle. If I knew how to work my wife's digital camera, I'd send you a picture of an extra mag I had after I got rid of mine.  I crushed it in the vise and it is still in my reloading room. I did this in between our conversation just to see what it would do.  It cracked to pieces.  We all know that aluminum has a tendency to bend.   Truly the mag could be made out of a multitude of metals aluminum, lead, zinc, copper, and even tin. We will probably never know the exact composition.  Remington would not want to say they have an innovative new light weight magazine that is made of pot metal.   It really doesn't matter though.  A metal mag like the other more expensive Remington models would be better.  Anyway, I've enjoyed this converstation and I am glad you found a rifle you really like.  I look forward to chatting with you again. I guess we'll just disagree on this one...Anytime

[p15camborne]

I bought another cheap semi-auto .22 today.  This one is even better than my 597.  Great trigger out of the box.  Good shooter.  Won't need $200 in mods like a 10/22 or $30 in mods like a 597.  I wish it had a 597 magazine instead of a clip that sticks two inches below the rifle, but other than that it's great.  A savage model 62F.  Walmart version of a 64F.  Cost $105.  And it's all black.  No green stock.   

[ironglow]

P15;

   That should, by most accounts be a real shooter..keep us posted on how well it does..