Author Topic: Pix from 4000 miles of driving to Colorado & Back (Read 2423 times)

Cat Whisperer · « **on:** October 02, 2006, 04:27:03 PM »

Here are the first 3. Take some guesses!

Mystery Location:

Two shots of a cannon, only made in 1858 and 1859.
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa
Cannon 1 of 2

Cannon 2 of 2

intoodeep · « **Reply #1 on:** October 02, 2006, 04:45:37 PM »

CW,

Nice James Rifle. How was the overall condition? Any photos showing the full tube?

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #2 on:** October 02, 2006, 04:52:48 PM »

intoodeep - THAT was fast!

I'll dig out some of the other pix.

Here are two more pix of a mortar. NOTE: Serial No. 1 ! I THINK it's original. Other's have shown pix of this one here before.

Mystery Mortar 1 of 2

Mystery Mortar 2 of 2

Double D · « **Reply #3 on:** October 02, 2006, 05:46:34 PM »

Quote from: Cat Whisperer on October 02, 2006, 04:27:03 PM

Here are the first 3. Take some guesses!

Mystery Location:

The alma mater of one our old timers here onthe board! Since I was told off line I will leave my answer as hint!

intoodeep · « **Reply #4 on:** October 02, 2006, 06:14:12 PM »

CW,

For fun I'll let "entsminger" answer the above question...

As, for being original. Those stamping do not appear to be period.

GGaskill · « **Reply #5 on:** October 02, 2006, 10:56:35 PM »

Yes, judging from the weight, he should be able to identify it.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2006, 04:13:16 AM »

Quote from: intoodeep on October 02, 2006, 06:14:12 PM

CW,

.... As, for being original. Those stamping do not appear to be period.

The casting itself looks far superior to the casting of the replica at Petersburg. These are the two I've seen up-front and personal, so I can't comment on what 'period' lettering 'should' look like.

CU_Cannon · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2006, 07:30:03 AM »

I would say that it is original based on the one in Saratoga Springs NY.

Dictator · « **Reply #8 on:** October 03, 2006, 09:06:10 AM »

;)Looks like someones been to the Iowa capital

Dictator · « **Reply #9 on:** October 03, 2006, 09:36:40 AM »

Oops-----forgot---here is the story on this guy:
Granted to Iowa by an act of Congress, this 13-inch seacoast mortar was shipped from a naval yard in Washington, D.C., in 1895. The 22,000-pound mortar was cast in 1861 at Fort Pitt, Pennsylvania. It was mounted on the North Atlantic Squadron gunboat "Matthew Vassar" and used in the bombardment of Forts St. Phillip and Jackson (1862) and of Vicksburg (1863) during the Civil War. The mortar was given to the state as a reminder of that war.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2006, 02:17:35 PM »

Dictator -

Thanks for that piece of information! (And the pix).

Here are two more of the James:

With the Shaefer Pen Co. in the background.

Plaque

Blaster · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2006, 03:37:24 PM »

Quote from: Double D on October 02, 2006, 05:46:34 PM

Quote from: Cat Whisperer on October 02, 2006, 04:27:03 PM
Here are the first 3. Take some guesses!

Mystery Location:

The alma mater of one our old timers here onthe board! Since I was told off line I will leave my answer as hint!

Well, I'll take a real wild guess and say that I believe it "MAY" be the St. Mary's Catholic School and Church in the back ground and I'd guess they are located in downtown West Point, IA. At least I'm "guessing" that's what that school/church used to be known as many MANY years ago. I have to know more about why that particular photo was taken. That vehicle is parked on what used to be a steep little hill. Of course there was that blasted stop sign at the top of the hill. When learning to drive at age 14, I used to kinda dread having to stop the car on that hill - stick shift don't you know.. Blaster (Bob in So. CO, former of West Point, Iowa.)

intoodeep · « **Reply #12 on:** October 03, 2006, 04:02:09 PM »

CW,

I must say I am surprised by the quality of the markings. I would have thought they were more like the photo that CU posted. As, you can see a definate difference between the two sets of markings. I have never seen markings that were this crooked and without the "o" on the reg. number. Maybe it was just the photo.

Anyway, I did a little research on the inspectors marks D.W.F and I came up with Daniel Webster Flagler who was the Cheif Ordance Inspector at that time. So, there is a little more info to add to what "Dictator" posted.

Thanks for the photos and keep them coming....

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #13 on:** October 04, 2006, 01:14:46 AM »

Quote from: blaster on October 03, 2006, 03:37:24 PM

...
Well, I'll take a real wild guess and say that I believe it "MAY" be the St. Mary's Catholic School and Church in the back ground and I'd guess they are located in downtown West Point, IA.
...
Blaster (Bob in So. CO, former of West Point, Iowa.)

We have a winner!

It's now the Middle School.

It's not often I drive through from Colorado to Iowa to Virginia, so we diverted a little, took some pictures of Kolona, IA for some Amish friends here that grew up there and it wasn't any further out of the way to pass through West Point.

Not too many cannons this trip - they're getting harder to find.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #14 on:** October 04, 2006, 01:19:37 AM »

Quote from: intoodeep on October 03, 2006, 04:02:09 PM

CW,

I must say I am surprised by the quality of the markings. I would have thought they were more like the photo that CU posted. As, you can see a definate difference between the two sets of markings. I have never seen markings that were this crooked and without the "o" on the reg. number. Maybe it was just the photo.

Anyway, I did a little research on the inspectors marks D.W.F and I came up with Daniel Webster Flagler who was the Cheif Ordance Inspector at that time. So, there is a little more info to add to what "Dictator" posted.

Thanks for the photos and keep them coming....

The little 0 on top of the period IS there, but VERY light. That plus the bright sun washed it out.

Thanks for the info on DWF too! More pix soon. Mostly details. Two fuse holes. Bottom of cavity is hemispherical.

Dictator · « **Reply #15 on:** October 04, 2006, 01:36:18 AM »

Here's a couple more pics of the 13 inch mortar at the Iowa State capital in Des Moines. One shows the 2 vent holes and the other is the casting number on the lower right belly. It appears to be number 553:

Michael Az · « **Reply #16 on:** October 04, 2006, 03:31:42 AM »

Thanks for the photos. Did they double fuze them just to insure ignition?
Michael

CU_Cannon · « **Reply #17 on:** October 04, 2006, 04:43:30 AM »

I would guess that two vents would have been quite common on a mortar this size. If one of them were to become obstructed there would be a back-up. It would have taken a considerable amount of time to drill a new vent in the field. That was time that could not be spared during battle.

How were these mortars ignited originally? It would seem that the vent would be too long to use friction primers.

guardsgunner · « **Reply #18 on:** October 04, 2006, 07:15:09 AM »

The second vent was not drilled all the way through to save time in the feild. I always thought friction primers were used but now am not sure.

Rickk · « **Reply #19 on:** October 04, 2006, 09:46:53 AM »

A friction primer probably was used.

See the article at http://www.clpgh.org/exhibit/neighborhoods/strip/strip_n41.html , where they tried to fire an experimental 20 inch bore Rodman Gun and were surprized to find that a friction primer would not fire the gun (the vent hole 23 inches deep) without first pouring fine powder down the vent.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #20 on:** October 04, 2006, 02:53:36 PM »

Here are 3 more of the mortar:

Mortar SN 1

Mortar finish detail - note the rough casting and the parts that were turned in a lathe.

Mortar – two touch holes - note also the ridge formed by the two parts of the mould.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #21 on:** October 05, 2006, 03:00:51 PM »

Here's the other Cannon I photographed in Des Moines, IA.

What is it? I do not know, but it looked elegant.

Cannon 1 of 8

Cannon 2 of 8

Cannon 3 of 8

Cannon 4 of 8

Cannon 5 of 8

Cannon 6 of 8

Cannon 7 of 8

Cannon 8 of 8

Cannonmaker · « **Reply #22 on:** October 09, 2006, 04:58:41 PM »

The last cannon I do not recoginize, I did pick the James Rifle out as soon as I saw it. This gun 1878, bronze, looks like the writing is spanish. What is the bore and leinght of the tube? It dose not take too many Cannons to make a trip interesting.

Rick

Blaster · « **Reply #23 on:** October 10, 2006, 02:38:59 AM »

Quote from: Dictator on October 04, 2006, 01:36:18 AM

Here's a couple more pics of the 13 inch mortar at the Iowa State capital in Des Moines. One shows the 2 vent holes and the other is the casting number on the lower right belly. It appears to be number 553:

Looks like someone helped themselves to a souvenir of a trunion cap nut. The right one appears to be missing. Now, I know that ole Dictator Joe would surely condemn such an action.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #24 on:** October 10, 2006, 07:30:33 AM »

I think the bolt was broken, although present. I'll check some of my other pix.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #25 on:** October 10, 2006, 02:02:59 PM »

Here it is:

Blaster · « **Reply #26 on:** October 10, 2006, 02:26:36 PM »

Right you are, Tim. You are extremely thorough to have caught that broken trunion bolt. Sorry, but I though Dictator Joe had taken the photos of that mortar. Thanks! Blaster (Bob in So. CO)

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #27 on:** October 11, 2006, 12:39:09 AM »

Quote from: blaster on October 10, 2006, 02:26:36 PM

Right you are, Tim. You are extremely thorough to have caught that broken trunion bolt. Sorry, but I though Dictator Joe had taken the photos of that mortar. Thanks! Blaster (Bob in So. CO)

There are several of us that have taken/posted pix of it. Interesting too, as we've noticed different features.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #28 on:** October 12, 2006, 08:07:22 AM »

While, I don't relish the act of questioning the veracity of a brass plaque; paraphrasing what "Willie the Shake" wrote in "Hamlet", 'something is not right in Denmark'. There is a lot of confusion in the writings about and discussion of, the "James Gun", because there are really three different types of cannon that are sometimes referred to by that name. I'm not going to get into that here but the photos that Tim took are of 14-Pounder James Rifled Guns with the characteristic 3.8'' bore. These guns are sometimes referred to as "Type II James Guns" and they echo the outward appearance of John Griffen's 3-Inch Ordnance Rifle. As far as I can tell these guns were first made for Charles T. James by his close friend J. Tyler Ames at the Ames Manufacturing Co. in Chicopee, Massachusetts in 1861; few were produced after 1862.

I thought the twin vents on some large iron guns were for the purpose of extending their working life-spans. I haven't read this in reference to the 13'' mortar but I've seen it in literature about the large bore Dahlgren shell guns. From, Civil War Naval Ordnance by Eugene B. Canfield; "Because the vent became enlarged or eroded more quickly than other parts of the piece, two were arranged in the Dahlgren shell guns. One was filled with zinc, the other being used until it became sufficiently enlarged to endanger the piece. It was then filled with zinc and the second vent bored. Other times the right vent only was bored, the left vent being unbored or partially bored".

That Spanish Howitzer is a beauty. The legend cast into the breech ring is documenting the fact that the gun was cast in Seville on June 16th, 1878. The cypher on the trunnion swell is the royal crest of Alfonso XII, the king of Spain at the time. The lettering cast into the chase that you can see a little of in the photo taken of the chase and muzzle ring is probably the name given to the gun; this being a long held Spanish custom. It would be fascinating to know the provenance of this barrel. I'm going to make an educated guess that it was "reassigned" to American ownership during, or shortly after, the Spanish-American War.

John

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #29 on:** October 12, 2006, 09:12:18 AM »

I post a picture, John gives us an education!

Thanks!